Talk:Kenku
Kenku and Tengu and variations I feel I ought to work out the whole kenku/tengu situation. They're strongly based on the Tengu of Japanese myth Although maybe not a famous creature, they've been in all editions and had a raised profile in 4th, and are spread from Faerun to Kara-Tur. However, every time they're statted, they're very different. So, I'm summarising the variations here for later work. Kenku at Wikipedia covers their publication history. Let's look: * Monstrous Compendium Kara-Tur Appendix: Tengu - aggressive, tricky recluses. Have arms and wings, can fly. Come in two varieties: human-headed (Chaotic Neutral) and bird-headed (Chaotic Evil). Abilities in mimicry and spells (some the same, some different as the OA version). * Monster Manual III 3rd edition: Kenku – wingless, flightless, rogue-like race. Neutral Evil. Abilities in mimicry, working together, and stealth. Puts these kenkus in southern Faerun: Zazesspur, Veldorn, Estagund, and traces their ancestry back to Kara-Tur. * Oriental Adventures (3rd edition): Tengu ("also known as kenkus") – warrior scholars, have arms and wings, can fly. Neutral. Come in two varieties: human-headed and bird-headed. Abilities in mimicry, a wing-baffle attack, katana-finesse, and spells. This could be discounted as specific to the Rokugan setting, but the book implies it is generally applicable to D&D, except some Rokugan-specific lore. * Monster Manual 2 4th edition: Kenku - wingless, flightless, rogue-like race again. Unaligned. General abilities in mimicry, working together, stealth, and the usual 4e variations. (Follows MM3 for 3.x) Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms has tengu but doesn't go deeply into them. Naturally, it fits the MC: Kara-Tur Appendix version. Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide has its kenkus in the Beastlands of former Veldorn. This of course most closely fits the MM2 4e version. So, there are NE wingless rogue-types; NN human- and crow-headed winged warrior scholars; and CN/CE human- and crow-headed winged marauders. Does anyone know of more variants, more lore in the Realms, or have thoughts on which to include and which to discount? — BadCatMan (talk) 07:32, March 15, 2016 (UTC) :* Kenku from Fiend Folio 1st edition have wings (allowing flight), clawed hands (with arms) and feet, and a hawk-like head. They are natural thieves and warriors. Older (higher HD) kenku can shapechange every 30 days for up to 7 days, have an innate invisibility ability with no limitations, and start getting magic-user spells like magic missile or shocking grasp. If that wasn't enough, they can disguise themselves well enough to pass for human 50% of the time. They do not speak but appear to communicate telepathically. Those are the high points, there is a bit more lore in the description. :* The adventurer's supplement to the Princes of the Apocalypse says they can mimic anything they hear, including speech. :* Dragon #329 has the Ecology of the Kenku article. Huge amount of lore but not FR specific. Sidebar says they are "related to tengus, shapeshifting birdmen of Japanese myth" and appeared in the Eye of the Beholder computer game. :* Monster Mythology says their god is Quorlinn and says they have priests and shamans. :* Dragon #13 has stats for a very powerful tengu (100 hp) like a minor deity maybe. Reprinted in Best of Dragon Vol. 1. : There might be more tidbits here and there. Hope that helps :) —Moviesign (talk) 00:43, March 16, 2016 (UTC) ::Helps? Bah. So, about the only consistent thing is that they're bird-related and can mimic sounds, and maybe have shapeshifting and illusion magic when they get it. I wonder if two separate kenku articles would be worthwhile: one for the 3e/4e "western" wingless crow-people rogues, another for the 1e/2e "eastern" winged crow-head/human-head magical warrior scholars. — BadCatMan (talk) 00:56, March 16, 2016 (UTC) :::If it's not too late, my vote would be for two articles. We could argue that the Kara-Tur/OA tengu were sometimes called kenku because of similarities and even that the races were related, but they are distinct. ~ Lhynard (talk) 13:38, April 20, 2016 (UTC) ::::Nope, I haven't started anything yet. But I'm also in favour of splitting the article. I'll put it in the list. — BadCatMan (talk) 15:00, April 20, 2016 (UTC) :::::The split is complete: see kenku and tengu. I'll begin developing the former, at least. — BadCatMan (talk) 06:30, May 4, 2016 (UTC) Okay, the wingless, spell-less kenku of 3rd edition and later is now done! I covered 3e and 4e, and the setting lore I knew of. For 5th edition, I found the adventurer's supplement for Princes of the Apocalypse here. There's not much there, but I don't know 5e and don't know if there might be more elsewhere, so I haven't added it. "Ecology of the Kenku" in Dragon magazine 329 might be relevant, but I don't have access to it. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:46, May 4, 2016 (UTC) :Alright, this changes things: there are 2nd-edition kenku, existing alongside the 2nd-edition tengu. They'd be the Fiend Folio kenku Moviesign described above. They could fit the 3e/4e kenku, except they have a lot of different powers, behaviors, and espcially wings. So, that makes a fourth breed of these creatures! — BadCatMan (talk) 10:15, May 7, 2016 (UTC) That's it, I've now sorted out all the valid breeds of kenku and tengu: * The western wingless kenku. * The western winged kenku (winged). * The eastern winged tengu with human and crow heads, maybe sometimes called kenku. * The eastern tengu from Oriental Adventures (3rd edition), which I've decided isn't valid for the Forgotten Realms or Kara-Tur settings (and frankly I've done enough). The one point in common is that they're a bird people who live to troll humans. So of course they have multiple breeds to mess with us sages. :\ — BadCatMan (talk) 10:23, May 9, 2016 (UTC) Deity Hi Daranios. The lore about the deity Quorlinn, coming from an older source that predates this breed of kenku, might be better suited at the tengu article, for the reasons above. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:48, May 5, 2016 (UTC) :Agreed - sorry, I did not look closely. I have moved the lore accordingly, but left the name kenku to be sorted out by whoever cleans up the tengu article. Daranios (talk) 17:06, May 5, 2016 (UTC) ::No worries. I'll probably work up the tengu sometime soon, but I've added a note on naming now. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:50, May 6, 2016 (UTC) Novel Mention Apparently, a tribe of kenku have interactions with the Shadovar of Anauroch in Realms of Shadow. I'm not read the book, but the cover shows them with wings and arms, even though it's a post-3e novel! ~ Lhynard (talk) 15:30, June 19, 2016 (UTC) :Since it appears to be an anthology, it's possible the cover art is from a different story that doesn't feature Kenku; in fact, overall, they look more like aarakocra. Another likely explanation is that the artist's brief only specified "bird people" and no one vetted it afterwards. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:11, June 19, 2016 (UTC) ::All possible. Also, the tale, I think, comes from the time of Netheril, which would be pre-''1e, technically. :) ~ ''Lhynard (talk) 17:19, June 19, 2016 (UTC) :::I came across this appearance, and mentioned it on the Kenku (winged) page. I've not read the story, but based on the cover art, they seem to be very clearly the 1e/2e-era winged kenku. But then, these 3e wingless kenku first appeared in 2004 sourcebook, while Realms of Shadow came out in 2002. So it's an understandable conflict. :) — BadCatMan (talk) 09:35, June 20, 2016 (UTC) ::::Great! I'm just making sure we are thorough. :) ~ Lhynard (talk) 15:39, June 20, 2016 (UTC)